About dust compression


#1

Hi greg,

Seeing as how the shredder produces huge amounts of 72nd piles my sorting system always has trouble catching up if i just let my system process more than 1 stack of ores. This is because currently the only way to compress them to my knowledge is through the dust funnel, I tried the boxinator but the boxinator for whatever reason doesn’t even handle tiny piles let alone 72nd piles (any good reason for this ?).

If you use the dust funnel for compressing 72nd piles you have to set it to tiny piles because hoppers can’t emit stacksizes higher than 64 so you have to set them to either emit 8,16,24,32,40,48,56 or 64 and dust funnels don’t work that fast it seems they might do something like produce 3 tiny piles / second where the large shredder if shredding non-tiny piles of refined ore can produce almost 54 72nd piles / tick -> 1080 72nd piles / second (using cinnabar as an example). Meaning you need something like 45 dust funnels to accomodate 1 large shredder not even considering the fact that you could shred tiny piles of refined ore instead of compressing them first which I’m doing to avoid a disaster.

Another thing about dust compression is the fact that you have 547 different dusts each of which has a small 72nd, tiny, small and regular version of course the vast majority of them aren’t relevant but that’s beside the point. With current max sized hoppers you need 18 hoppers & filters for each relevant ore / dust variation so: Tiny refined (optional if the speed of dust funnels was 165 times faster (shredding tiny produces 3.666 times more 72nd dust)), Tiny purified ore, Tiny dust, 72nd dust, small dust. In total 90 (36 slot) hoppers and filters to accomodate all the potential variations which i guess isn’t too bad I just wonder if you inteded for it to be such a logistical nightmare to compress dusts.

My main concern is that while you CAN extend the amount of dust funnels to compress 72nd piles faster because 64 is divisible by 8 such that if the system fills an almost full dustfunnel the amount of remaining space in the funnel will always be divisible by 8 assuming proper hopper emissions. You CAN’T extend dust funnels or packagers or future boxinators (if you fix) for 1/9 pile items because 64 isnt divisible by 9, so whenever you the pipes split up stacks to fill one packager the next packager won¨t get an amount of items divisible 9 and it WILL get stuck eventually.

TL;DR Please consider allowing boxinators to compress 1/9th piles as well as 1/72nd piles. And please consider adding larger hoppers or configuring highest current tier hoppers to be bigger 54 slots would be ideal to match the size of filters.

PS. To not sound like a completely ungarteful little bitch, thank you for your continued awesome work on this mod it has provided many hours of escapeism and procrastination for me.


(Gregorius Techneticies) #2

Lol, you are aware that Dust Funnels essentially do the same that Boxinators do? And you are aware you can loop the tiny piles back to the input filter line after they come out the 72nd size Dust Funnel?

But how am I supposed to fix this issue in general? I cannot change the stack limit to be above 64, and i can also not change the 72nd piles to be 64th piles or something, because real life Maths and prime factors do not work that way.

Not to mention, Item Barrels and Mass Storages which have been set to any type of Dust do accept Dust Blocks, Small Dusts, Tiny Dusts and 72nd Dusts too (and will convert properly towards the desired pile size), so you could use those as “Dust Funnels” with huge Capacity.


#3

About the loop… thats exactly what i’m doing the green ender chest is the input for all items still it requires both filters for 72nd pile and filters for tiny piles of course.

The point of the boxinator is that it has the potential to be way faster than a dust funnel i suppose, and also it just makes intuitive sense that something which compacts dust should be able to handle 72nd piles and tiny piles feels weird to exclude them no ?

I didn’t know you could reset the filters mass of storages when empty that’s actually super useful so thank you for that insight. What do you mean you can use them as dust funnels they don’t automatically covert dusts to a specific size do they? you just mean that i can use them essentially as huge buffers? Huge buffers still have the issue of only handling 1 dust at a time if I’m processing different types of materials i will still end up clogging the system.

I understand the issue with stack size, that’s why I wasn’t asking you to do anything about it i’m merely using it all as a context to frame the suggestion for a better way of compressing dusts, one way would be to allow boxinators to handle all kinds of dust because it would speed up operation significantly meaning chances of congesting all inventories with a backlog of 72nd piles decreases. The increase in hopper size is just a convenience thing reducing the rediculousness of dust management.


(Gregorius Techneticies) #4

Warning if you reset the filters on Mass Storages the first dust that enters will also set the dust size, meaning you effectively CANNOT use them that way you just thought you could use them. I was referring to that you can just let the Dusts go to their intended target directly by using Mass Storages as Filters everywhere in your System without caring what size the incoming dusts are.

Also as far as I know the Dust Funnels work Instantly and for Free, Boxinators cannot be faster than that, they can only be equally fast. You might be confused because the Item Pipes only ever send Items once per Second, so that is where your congestion comes from.

There is Plastic Item Boxes too, which are like Mass Storages but only store very very few Items.


#5

Some of your machines allow for parallel operations maybe the boxinator could be one of those ? you were right about my pipes but now that I increased the hopper output to stacksize 64 and 63 respectively I see that the funnel has its own limitations it is performing something like 2 operations per second (I timed a buffer going from 9600 to 7600 and it took 130 seconds (got sick of waiting) which is 15.38 72 piles / second but i have around 18 tps so yeah. I don’t know if this is due to it’s internal storage or what have you but im positive the outputspeed of a mass storage set to fill automatically is diarrhea fast. Imo really needs to exist a faster solution.

I don’t know what you mean by having mass storage filters everywhere what I did here in this image works to the extent that you’re only producing 1 type of 72nd pile at a time still causes a congestion of other 72nd piles while the one contained in the storage is being compressed.


(Gregorius Techneticies) #6

I mean that you shouldn’t care about what size the Dust is at all and just use Mass Storages (the plastic ones) as input filters for the Dusts wherever you need them, considering there is usually not many Recipes that work for more than one Dust.

And all overflow Dusts just go into a Storage Wall of Mass Storages that aren’t just plastic.


(system) automatically bumped #7

(system) automatically bumped #8

(Donzil Zenovka) #9


Something like this?


(Gregorius Techneticies) #10

if by that you mean all those barrels with item pipes behind them, then yes.


#11

I don’t favor that kind of storage solution for dusts of size 1/72, 1/9, 1/4 as it calls for duplicate mass storage for all items rather than unifying them. It only takes 14k units of dust to fill a mass storage given the format 1/72. There are more reasonable things that makes you want to unify, whenever you want to automate for example sulfuric acid bathing you’ll specify which types of ore you want there but if you don’t compress from tiny to regular sized ore first you’ll congest all sulfuric baths with tiny ore amounts not divisible by 9. Same applies to centrifuging magnetic separation etc. Anyways i solved the worst of the congestion by adding 3 mass storage (with resetting filters) and dust funnels to the 1/72 compression section, so I won’t be crying about this subject too much more.


(Gregorius Techneticies) #12

Uhhm you are misunderstanding the Mass Storages ability to inherently combine dust just like a Dust Funnel. They for example can store 1 million regular piles of Dust or 1 million blocks of dust depending on which dust gets inserted first. Any Dust that enters which is different from the Dust it contains, will be counted in Material Units for partial Dusts, once the Material Unit reaches or overflows that Number it will add the desired Pile of Dust into the Mass Storage, hiding all the 72nd, 9th and quarter piles of Dust etc from view. The same works for Nuggets Chunks Ingots and Block of Ingots too.


#13

Oh my god fuck me


(Gregorius Techneticies) #14

Does that mean you just realised how it works, or that you are annoyed at me explaining it? XD


#15

It means I just realised that they’re capable of that…


(Donzil Zenovka) #16

It happens, you should have seen my setup before I discovered mass storage.

And yes, there is a labyrinth of piping behind them connected to a ore processing plant. :joy: