Some questions about the future NPC system

gameplans

(dnk1234567) #1

I read the introduction of the future NPC system,and I have some questions.

1.How to improve the industrial and scientific planning ability of NPC?

2.Does NPC need to follow the crafting recipes like human players?

The GregTech series have already become the representative of complexity,and it will become more complex in the future.As you described,the NPC settlement will become stronger,so they need productions.However,the NPC did badly in industry,especially in automation and something which need to interact with the world.Not all NPC settlements can have even one player,so how to teach the NPC to work well in the industry?
And for backbone-branch technology settings like Gregtech, AI always wastes resources where it is not needed.I noticed this problem in many other games.

3.Whether NPC settlements are generated on the map in real time or are pre-generated?

In Minecraft,the village is still,it will not change.So it can be dropped on the map in real time because we just need to determine its initial value,match minecraft’s unlimited map.
However, your NPC settlement will develop as time flowing,so they need to pre-generated,in order to develop at the same time as the players.Also,this means that a infinite map will not running well,so what is the future map and NPC generation method?

Thank you very much for your answer.


(Gregorius Techneticies) #2

The NPCs can buy and sell stuff, you could sell them the Technology including Blueprints etc. They will improve themselves too alongside you, and roughly match your own tech level, or at least a more “balanced” version of it (as in spread evenly over all tech branches) in case of min-maxing players who develop one tech extremely high while disregarding other tech, making it possible for players to have better tech than NPCs without NPCs being stuck at the Stone Age.

Yes they will use the same Recipes as Players. And I haven’t seen Games where the AI actually wastes Resources, except when attacking the player over and over without realizing their armies always die.

What I always saw was the AI having shitloads of Resources and not fucking using those Resources. Or even worse, the AI not being written to work with limited Resources and then running itself into starvation.

One thing for the “Medieval Period” and earlier is the fact that almost everything can be made out of Wood and Stone. Wood is renewable and Stone is everywhere. Food and Water can easily be solved by making sure that the Villages are next to a River, Lake, natural Spring, Aqueduct or simply have a Water Well.

The NPCs also have the advantage of multiple people working together, so they can split tasks way more easy than a singular Player ever could, which means less Automation required, and once they can make Machines, they will ofcourse use them to free up other places for their NPCs to work at.

NPCs will most likely start up with a Camp of a few Tents or small Huts around a “Religious” Altar or Shrine. They will start cutting Wood and making Fields where it is logical, and then build actual Houses. Having the Village constantly run in the background can have performance Issues, but I will try to reduce them as much as possible, especially when there is multiple Villages.
And dont forget, Villages can easily just go and flatten the Landscape for more Building Area they have enough Slave Power, uhh I mean Manpower to just do that. I can also just start each newly generated Village with the Tech other Villages already have, just not in a written down State, because then you could just generate new Villages to steal Tech from, instead of stealing from the already developed Villages. Or I will do something else to prevent stealing Tech from newer Villages.

One thing about the Map, at least in the early stages of the Game Development, it will be of the “Islands in the Ocean” Type, because it should generate the Surface of one Island as a whole all at once, at least for things like Rivers it is needed in order to set the proper origin and flow direction. Vertical Chunks below the Surface wont generate unless needed (i.e. when you dig into them).

Another thing is that the Village will go with a Grid System, where the Grid is aligned to the Chunks, both horizontally and vertically. Now you may think that would look ugly as fuck in Minecraft, but dont forget each 16x16x16 Chunk in the Game has the Size of a 4x4x4 Block Cube in Minecraft, and a grid that small in Minecraft would actually look good again. The Reason for the Grid being so Chunk aligned is that I essentially just need to put an ID into each Chunk to declare which Part of what the Chunk is, like a Street or the Entrance Area of a House for example, perfect for Pathfinding.

The “Religious Places” will purely serve the purpose as a Respawn Point you can select just like how Minecraft Beds work without the Sleeping where the last Altar you prayed to is the one you will respawn at. I am thinking of naming the Hardcore Mode “Atheist Mode” where you just dont respawn. XD
There will also be other selectable Respawn Mechanics that I mentioned earlier, like you respawning as a different Member of your own Family, if you have one, kindof like at the end of Red Dead Redemption.
But the Religious place will exist even if its not available as Respawn Mechanic, because the NPCs believe in something. And it wont be any real life Religion, I will make one up myself, dont worry.


(dnk1234567) #3

Very thanks for your reply.
But Gregtech has introduced one new thing,smelting crucible.The NPC seems do badly in planning raw material ratio(especially the recipe of steel and alloy).They will let the last raw material to affect the outcome of the next procession.

Also,in chemical industry,there are many kinds of fluid.Sometimes the raw material will remain, which will occupy the input slot, meaning that the later material can not enter.

So giving NPCs ability of empty the containers initiatively is also needed.But sometimes these remaining ingredients are only temporarily useless.This seems to need to be considered.


(Gregorius Techneticies) #4

You forget that the NPCs could easily be able to only insert what they need instead of inserting too much or not enough. And that NPCs will likely go with 1 Machine per Recipe, simply because there is a dozen NPCs doing the work, why wouldn’t they build a larger Factory and overproduce everything?


(dnk1234567) #5

Yeah,I seem think too much from a human player view.People’s energy is limited, so they need automation.Many of these issues are considered in the design of automation process.
The NPC can adjust the produce scale easily,they are similar to human player and will not get tired or bored.Also,they have more members.


(Gregorius Techneticies) #6

Oh they will get tired for sure, I want furniture to be useful, including Beds. XD


(dnk1234567) #7

This setting of tiredness is very good, it seems to be somewhat like Enviromine.One of the greatest advantages of AI is that it is always energetic.But human players need to rest.

Thank you very much for your attention and answer to all my questions above.


(Donzil Zenovka) #8

I’ve not been keeping up with NPC’s, how much of the society is simulated? As well as sleeping do they eat?, will their villages grow exponentially?


(Gregorius Techneticies) #9

Yeah they will eat, drink, sleep etc. all what living beings kinda need to survive. Considering they are essentially an army of Players I kinda need to nerf them by adding “maintenance” things they have to do, like making Food, and having each Villager be specialized in one or two Jobs (So the Blacksmith could become a Guard if necessary for example, because of happening to have combat experience). And having a Village grow exponentially can be dangerous, I think I will go with linear plus some variable population caps.


(dnk1234567) #10

The population problem makes me love and hate again.When I was playing CivilizationV,population can bring more productivity and more dissatisfaction.

An NPC settlement should only be able to use the limited land around it.The level of technology determines the maximum range of the available land.Also determines the output of food per unit area.
If NPC doesn’t get enough food, they can’t breed, or even starve.
So higher levels of technology can support a larger society, and of course ,you can make your society small even you have modern technology.

I think it is necessary to add a policy option that limits population growth for society managers, especially when you are in early game that your food production is low.


(Gregorius Techneticies) #11

Yeah but remember, a Blocky Game like MC isnt the same as Civilization :wink:


(dnk1234567) #12

Thank you for your answer. For the game content, I hope to be more complicated. If I can, I want to make a game improvement mod for your future game.:wink:


(Gregorius Techneticies) #13

Awesome to already have people who want to make mods, considering i will be stuck doing the groundwork for the game first and cant do much content myself in the beginning.

NPCs will ofcourse be capped at their Food Supply, since they would starve otherwise, and there will likely be Village Size Limits too, at least for the automatic self powered growth, if someone were to make a gigantic city it would still be accepted by the NPCs even if you grow out of that size cap, including if players make buildings and streets at the border of the City (they wouldn’t like you modifying existing stuffs unless they really trust you).

Because of the Food Supply “Issue” it will also be way more likely for Coastal Villages to become bigger than the in Land Villages, since Fish is a rather plentyfull supply of food compared to Wheat.

Oh and one thing about Stuff in General: Plants, Foods, Animals and similar Nature Stuffs will likely be generated automatically and not copypaste IRL Nature. Sure people can make a Mod that adds things like “Oak Trees”, “Pigs” or “Wheat” to the Game, but the Stuff themselves from how I make it is gonna be fully random and only similar to IRL counterparts.

This is to give me more leeway and less Wikipedia research to worry about. You might end up with a Tree that grows something that looks like an Apple but is Blue instead of Red, Yellow or Green, and has way more seeds like a Watermelon would have, and those Seeds happen to be very usable to make Flour for baking some sort of Bread. It also guarantees that an Island always has at least something to trade with since the Nature has very unique Crops and Animals that can be sold.

Ofcourse I balance the traits of the Nature Stuffs in a way that each Island has everything it needs, like at least one good non-poisonous source of “Grain” (even if it’s a Blue Apple) or one good source of edible “Land Meat” (as opposed to “Fish Meat”), something along those lines. Or how about a Wheat alike Crop that grows Purple Berries instead of Seeds.

Another short Note: Islands are supposed to be large enough to fit half a dozen Villages at least without space Issues. And yes I plan to generate some sort of Road between them even if it’s a Dirt/Gravel path. Also Roads will not count as Part of a Village unless the Road is close to a Building, so it is safe for you to just build close to a Road. Though I would make sure that the Road is still considered a Road after you built there, otherwise Villagers will show up to repair the Road “somehow”. And yes again, you can make a detour aswell so they will choose another closeby Road as replacement Path once they stumble upon a broken Road, as long as its not ridiculously far away (though they might end up using the ridiculous far way, but will report to the Town that the shorter Road got broken and needs repair). And yes again again, you will be able to make Roads out of almost every decorative or “civilized” Block, its more the shape that matters than the Blocks it is made of.


(dnk1234567) #14

Thank you for your supplement.

I would like to ask whether the road can be replaced by some special way, such as sea or air, and whether the land road can be adapted to the railway system.


(Gregorius Techneticies) #15

Vehicles are semi-planned but definitely a much later thing, considering I would want them to be 100% customizable (as in you can build them yourself).

Entities like Minecarts should be possible, though dont try to “adapt” a Road to use Rails, make a separate Railway, because Villagers definitely want to walk for certain tasks. Real Life also doesn’t get rid of Roads because Rails exist. :wink:


(dnk1234567) #16

A fully customizable vehicle is very good, but for some precision vehicles, such as airplanes, their customization seems to be somewhat difficult.Also, what do you think about weapons, are they completely customizable?:thinking:


(Gregorius Techneticies) #17

They will very likely be fully customizable, especially since some people are way taller than others and the weapon to body ratio needs to fit otherwise you’re carrying a Hammer that is way too big for a normal sized person to carry and cant really use it.

NPCs will all be around the same Size on a per Village basis, though I will start off with a default height between 4 and 8 blocks (1 to 2 meters), since that way a 2m tall person can still crouch a little to get through a 7 block tall Door without having to adjust the buildings to make them not crawl through the doorways. XD


(dnk1234567) #18

Thank you for your detailed answer.I will always focus on your future game,it will be a wonderful game.